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Saṁyutta Nikāya 44.7 Linked Discourses 44.7

1. Abyākatavagga 1. The Undeclared Points

Moggallānasutta With Moggallāna

Atha kho vacchagotto paribbājako yenāyasmā mahāmoggallāno tenupasaį¹…kami; upasaį¹…kamitvā āyasmatā mahāmoggallānena saddhiṁ sammodi. Then the wanderer Vacchagotta went up to Venerable Mahāmoggallāna, and exchanged greetings with him.

SammodanÄ«yaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vÄ«tisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisÄ«di. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho vacchagotto paribbājako āyasmantaṁ mahāmoggallānaṁ etadavoca: When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side, and said to Mahāmoggallāna:

ā€œKiṁ nu kho, bho moggallāna, sassato lokoā€ti? ā€œWorthy Moggallāna, is this right: ā€˜the cosmos is eternal’?ā€

ā€œAbyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā: ā€œVaccha, this has not been declared by the Buddha.ā€

ā€˜sassato lokoā€™ā€ti.

ā€œKiṁ pana, bho moggallāna, asassato lokoā€ti? ā€œThen is this right: ā€˜the cosmos is not eternal’ …

ā€œEtampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:

ā€˜asassato lokoā€™ā€ti.

ā€œKiṁ nu kho, bho moggallāna, antavā lokoā€ti? ā€˜the cosmos is finite’ …

ā€œAbyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā:

ā€˜antavā lokoā€™ā€ti.

ā€œKiṁ pana, bho moggallāna, anantavā lokoā€ti? ā€˜the cosmos is infinite’ …

ā€œEtampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:

ā€˜anantavā lokoā€™ā€ti.

ā€œKiṁ nu kho, bho moggallāna, taṁ jÄ«vaṁ taṁ sarÄ«ranā€ti? ā€˜the soul and the body are identical’ …

ā€œAbyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā:

ā€˜taṁ jÄ«vaṁ taṁ sarÄ«ranā€™ā€ti.

ā€œKiṁ pana, bho moggallāna, aƱƱaṁ jÄ«vaṁ aƱƱaṁ sarÄ«ranā€ti? ā€˜the soul and the body are different things’ …

ā€œEtampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:

ā€˜aƱƱaṁ jÄ«vaṁ aƱƱaṁ sarÄ«ranā€™ā€ti.

ā€œKiṁ nu kho, bho moggallāna, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraį¹‡Äā€ti? ā€˜a realized one still exists after death’ …

ā€œAbyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā:

ā€˜hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraį¹‡Äā€™ā€ti.

ā€œKiṁ pana, bho moggallāna, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraį¹‡Äā€ti? ā€˜a realized one no longer exists after death’ …

ā€œEtampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:

ā€˜na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraį¹‡Äā€™ā€ti.

ā€œKiṁ nu kho, bho moggallāna, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraį¹‡Äā€ti? ā€˜a realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death’ …

ā€œAbyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, bhagavatā:

ā€˜hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraį¹‡Äā€™ā€ti.

ā€œKiṁ pana, bho moggallāna, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraį¹‡Äā€ti? ā€˜a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death’?ā€

ā€œEtampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ bhagavatā: ā€œThis too has not been declared by the Buddha.ā€

ā€˜neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraį¹‡Äā€™ā€ti.

ā€œKo nu kho, bho moggallāna, hetu ko paccayo, yena aƱƱatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ evaṁ puį¹­į¹­hānaṁ evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hotiā€”ā€œWhat’s the cause, worthy Moggallāna, what’s the reason why, when the wanderers of other religions are asked these questions, they declare one of these to be true?

sassato lokoti vā, asassato lokoti vā, antavā lokoti vā, anantavā lokoti vā, taṁ jÄ«vaṁ taṁ sarÄ«ranti vā, aƱƱaṁ jÄ«vaṁ aƱƱaṁ sarÄ«ranti vā, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā?

Ko pana, bho moggallāna, hetu ko paccayo, yena samaṇassa gotamassa evaṁ puį¹­į¹­hassa na evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti—And what’s the reason why, when the ascetic Gotama is asked these questions, he does not declare one of these to be true?ā€

sassato lokotipi, asassato lokotipi, antavā lokotipi, anantavā lokotipi, taṁ jÄ«vaṁ taṁ sarÄ«rantipi, aƱƱaṁ jÄ«vaṁ aƱƱaṁ sarÄ«rantipi, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇātipi, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇātipi, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇātipi, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇātipÄ«ā€ti?

ā€œAƱƱatitthiyā kho, vaccha, paribbājakā cakkhuṁ ā€˜etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti …pe… ā€œVaccha, the wanderers of other religions regard the eye like this: ā€˜This is mine, I am this, this is my self.’ They regard the ear … nose …

jivhaṁ ā€˜etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti …pe… tongue … body …

manaṁ ā€˜etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti. mind like this: ā€˜This is mine, I am this, this is my self.’

Tasmā aƱƱatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ evaṁ puį¹­į¹­hānaṁ evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti—That’s why, when asked, they declare one of those answers to be true.

sassato lokoti vā …pe…

neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā.

Tathāgato ca kho, vaccha, arahaṁ sammāsambuddho cakkhuṁ ā€˜netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati …pe… The Realized One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha regards the eye like this: ā€˜This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’ He regards the ear … nose …

jivhaṁ ā€˜netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati …pe… tongue … body …

manaṁ ā€˜netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati. mind like this: ā€˜This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’

Tasmā tathāgatassa evaṁ puį¹­į¹­hassa na evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti—That’s why, when asked, he does not declare one of those answers to be true.ā€

sassato lokotipi …pe…

neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇātipÄ«ā€ti.

Atha kho vacchagotto paribbājako uį¹­į¹­hāyāsanā yena bhagavā tenupasaį¹…kami; upasaį¹…kamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi. Then the wanderer Vacchagotta got up from his seat and went to the Buddha and exchanged greetings with him.

SammodanÄ«yaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vÄ«tisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisÄ«di. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho vacchagotto paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side. He asked the Buddha the same questions, and received the same answers.

ā€œkiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sassato lokoā€ti?

ā€œAbyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, mayā: ā€˜sassato loko’ti …pe….

ā€œKiṁ pana, bho gotama, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraį¹‡Äā€ti?

ā€œEtampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ mayā:

ā€˜neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraį¹‡Äā€™ā€ti.

ā€œKo nu kho, bho gotama, hetu ko paccayo, yena aƱƱatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ evaṁ puį¹­į¹­hānaṁ evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti:

ā€˜sassato loko’ti vā …pe…

ā€˜neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā?

Ko pana, bho gotama, hetu ko paccayo, yena bhoto gotamassa evaṁ puį¹­į¹­hassa na evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti:

ā€˜sassato loko’tipi …pe…

ā€˜neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipÄ«ā€ti?

ā€œAƱƱatitthiyā kho, vaccha, paribbājakā cakkhuṁ ā€˜etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti …pe…

jivhaṁ ā€˜etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti …pe…

manaṁ ā€˜etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassanti.

Tasmā aƱƱatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ evaṁ puį¹­į¹­hānaṁ evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti:

ā€˜sassato loko’ti vā …pe…

ā€˜neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā.

Tathāgato ca kho, vaccha, arahaṁ sammāsambuddho cakkhuṁ ā€˜netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati …pe…

jivhaṁ ā€˜netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati …pe…

manaṁ ā€˜netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti samanupassati.

Tasmā tathāgatassa evaṁ puį¹­į¹­hassa na evaṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ hoti:

ā€˜sassato loko’tipi, ā€˜asassato loko’tipi, ā€˜antavā loko’tipi, ā€˜anantavā loko’tipi, ā€˜taṁ jÄ«vaṁ taṁ sarÄ«ran’tipi, ā€˜aƱƱaṁ jÄ«vaṁ aƱƱaṁ sarÄ«ran’tipi, ā€˜hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi, ā€˜na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi, ā€˜hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi, ā€˜neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipÄ«ā€ti.

ā€œAcchariyaṁ, bho gotama, abbhutaṁ, bho gotama. He said, ā€œIt’s incredible, worthy Gotama, it’s amazing!

Yatra hi nāma satthu ca sāvakassa ca atthena attho byañjanena byañjanaṁ saṁsandissati samessati na virodhayissati, yadidaṁ aggapadasmiṁ. How the meaning and the phrasing of the teacher and the disciple fit together and agree without contradiction when it comes to the chief matter!

Idānāhaṁ, bho gotama, samaṇaṁ mahāmoggallānaṁ upasaį¹…kamitvā etamatthaṁ apucchiṁ. Just now I went to the ascetic Mahāmoggallāna and asked him about this matter.

Samaṇopi me moggallāno etehi padehi etehi byaƱjanehi tamatthaṁ byākāsi, seyyathāpi bhavaṁ gotamo. And he explained it to me with these words and phrases, just like the worthy Gotama.

Acchariyaṁ, bho gotama, abbhutaṁ, bho gotama. It’s incredible, worthy Gotama, it’s amazing!

Yatra hi nāma satthu ca sāvakassa ca atthena attho byaƱjanena byaƱjanaṁ saṁsandissati samessati na virodhayissati, yadidaṁ aggapadasminā€ti. How the meaning and the phrasing of the teacher and the disciple fit together and agree without contradiction when it comes to the chief matter!ā€

Sattamaṁ.
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